Kingdom of Speculation: Interview with Barbara Goldberg

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Barbara Headshot 2James Pfeiffer: This collection presents a new world to its reader—one that may be inhabited by some seemingly familiar characters, but which is governed by its own unique set of rules. (Where else are eggs kept under lock, key, and the protection of armed guards?) And the characters themselves are involved in a bit of world-building, and seem to take delight in it—I’m thinking of the Princess classifying plants throughout the kingdom, finding herself caught up in the “elation of naming.” I wonder if you found yourself in a similar state of elation as you defined your world. Are there pleasures in world-building as a writer? And how would you describe the pleasures of encountering world as a reader?

Barbara Goldberg: I love traveling to new worlds—especially from the safety of my own chair. That’s also reflected in my reading preferences: from A Child’s Garden of Verse (I especially liked the wrought iron gates and the woodsy green landscape beyond); to Italo Calvino’s Invisible Cities (the more fabulous his cities, the more stringent the rules); to Julio Cortazar, who makes the ordinary magical—forks, spoons, watches, all with lives of their own. I am very attracted to magic realism and world literature that open possibilities not bound by laws of nature.

I have as many tastes in literature as I do in food. In composing The Kingdom of Speculation, I focused on making its world “delicious,” meaning, having a rollicking good time with the language.  Following its music, rhythm, and beat, with its smattering of German syntax (the language spoken at home was German), brought me to surprising places, I am convinced that being immersed in another language from an early age expands both the way we experience the world and the way we think. There are expressions and states of mind we can access because they can be articulated (or not) in different languages.  I spent my childhood translating, interpreting and eavesdropping.

I came to the Kingdom after a period of writing intensely personal poems that ended with a punch in the gut, poems that struggled to understand how the Holocaust—the uninvited guest at our table and in our beds—lay a pall over everything.

A bit of personal history: My parents fled the Holocaust by way of Czechoslovakia, France (where my sister was born), Spain, Portugal, to a Greek ship that took them from Lisbon to New York, and then to Brazil to await their permanent visas. I’m the only one in my family born in the United States.

I grew up in the “old world,” where children were to be dutiful, obedient, clean and presentable. As a first generation American, I’ve always felt that I have one foot in the dark forests of the Brothers Grimm, the other planted in the playgrounds of PS 101 and Russell Sage Junior High.

The Holocaust was never spoken of in my presence.  And yet, I knew everything, the way children do, with their exquisitely tuned antennae. My parents’ friends  were all either survivors or refugees. Each one had a story. They played cards and laughed and I have no idea how I knew that this one had lost his entire family and had remarried, and that one met her husband in the camps. From early on, I knew that appearances can be deceptive.

My role in the family was to be adorable. I played my part. I, too, learned to conceal my darkest thoughts and fears behind a bubbly exterior.  I must have been about 6.

An early story I wrote was about a world populated with long-necked people with swiveling heads and two faces: one, the public face, the other, expressing true feelings.  People ran around trying to see the “real” face of others and hiding their own. Hence, my search for the inner self where honesty and authenticity reign.

I see now that my imagining other worlds was not just creative, but necessary.  I needed to escape the atmosphere at home, its toxic mix of free-floating anxiety and guilt.  Throughout much of my childhood, my parents lived on edge, starved for any piece of news about the fate of their loved ones. From the vantage point of years, I can hardly blame them for their preoccupations.

For me, the “elation of naming,” or creating, is the joy found in losing self-awareness, in being so involved that time and place become irrelevant. That to me is joy: being swept away, transported, not feeling bound by the strictures of the real world.  But then again, what is real?

kingdom frontIt seems to me that fairy tale was the departure point for this collection. And fairy tale seems to be fertile ground for writers. There are whole anthologies and literary reviews devoted to the subject, and writers like Kate Bernheimer and Kelly Link engage with fairy tale to much acclaim and readership. What makes fairy tales compelling to you?

To children, the world is mysterious. They can’t interpret the clues, things don’t make sense (except the “sense” they imagine). Since children see people as either good (nurturing, kind) or bad (cold, denying, inconsistent), it’s not surprising that relief is found when things go exactly as expected.  The right people die, the right people succeed. Not even the child is fooled by the wolf! Mothers are good, stepmothers are bad, witches are bad, and fairy godmothers are good. Sometimes a beast is a Prince in disguise. There is moral clarity.

I believe fairy tales are so gratifying precisely because there are no surprises. Of course Hansel and Gretel won’t starve, of course Sleeping Beauty will wake up. There may be journeys, adventures, miraculous feats and suspense, but no surprises. Characters are black or white, never gray. Things are resolved, end happily ever after, because a child cannot imagine what comes after—the ambivalence, complexity and lack of clarity of daily adult life.

But I also grew up with the vivid cautionary tales of Struwwelpeter (Shockheaded Peter). There was little Conrad who sucked his thumb until one night the tailor came with shears to snip it off.  There was the boy who refused to eat or wash or brush his hair. Ravens nested there. He got thinner and thinner until he died. Amazing to think that these gruesome tales which so fascinated me were penned by a German pediatrician, who believed that a child could be frightened into behaving. With no fairy godmother to turn to, I would have to stand on my own two feet.

In Kingdom of Speculation I wanted to write a fairy tale filled with magic and enchantment and unexpected delights. But I also wanted to write a story about a woman that was not a domestic drama, and would not be resolved by her finding the right man. Rather, the Princess would be an active hero who sets off on an ambitious quest to take stock of what has been left to her, what she must reclaim, what she must do in order to rule. She faces trials and temptations, but triumphs by her wits and  transforms her personal tragedy into compassion. My Princess has integrity, stamina, and just the right amount of chicanery to achieve her goals.

The Kingdom of Speculation is also an allegory. The characters are one-dimensional; their names are their identities. Hence, Reason is pure Reason, Passion is pure Passion. I spent a lot of time thinking about what to call the child that is the fruit of their obsession with each other. I finally came up with Grief. My favorite character is the Master of Chance, overlooked and underappreciated, and yet so much of the way the world turns is because of Chance. Even as the Princess interacts with this dubious Master she maintains her dignity, her “highness.”

Things unfold as preordained.  Grief undergoes transformation because of the intercession of our hero, the Princess.  When she refuses to sympathize with Grief and calls on him to relinquish his self-absorption, he is able to let it go. She is the agent of change, inspiring Grief to sing.

I was struck by these lines from “The Birth of Compassion,” in which the princess is moved by a song and remarks, “even // an ode to sorrow makes a joyful noise.” I thought it was an extraordinary sentiment, and it got me thinking about how full of music this collection is; not only in the musical effects of your language, but also in the events of the poems themselves (there are several poems in which a character sings or listens to a song). And, of course, music has been linked with poetry throughout its history. How do you think music influenced this collection, or has influenced your work more generally?

When I was little I used to improvise songs, both melody and lyrics, just free associating, and experiencing the “elation” of singing! Later when I started writing poetry, the typewriter was the “pen” of choice.  I found that my fingers would set up a rhythm and often I’d say the poems came from my fingers. Any time I read a poem of mine aloud—whether serious or zany—my foot taps in time. So it’s true that music plays an important role in my life—I studied piano for many years. My favorite composer is Bach—that uncompromising beat, the point/counterpoint, theme and variations, and the fugues. You pointed to one of my favorite lines from this collection, “even an ode to sorrow makes a joyful noise.”

What do you hope readers will encounter in The Kingdom of Speculation?

They say people write for themselves, a few friends and God.  If others come along for the ride, so much the better! I hope readers find unpredictability and inventiveness. I want them to be surprised, delighted and enchanted. To fall in love.

Barbara Goldberg is the author of four prize-winning books of poetry, including The Royal Baker’s Daughter, winner of the Felix Pollak Poetry Award. She is the translator of Scorched by the Sun, poems by the Israeli poet Moshe Dor. The two selected and translated four anthologies of contemporary Israeli poetry. Goldberg received two fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts as well as awards in translation, fiction and speechwriting. Her poems appear in Best American Poetry, Paris Review, Poetry and elsewhere, Goldberg is the series editor of the Word Works’ International Imprint.

James Pfeiffer is a recent graduate of Centre College, where he received a Bachelor’s degree in English. He lives in Lexington, KY and is an intern for Accents Publishing.

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